This is a transcript from Marketing to Prospective Franchisees – The Franchise Manual Podcast – Episode #32

It has been computer-generated so there are mistakes. We encourage you to listen and subscribe to The Franchise Manual Podcast.

Kit  00:00

Hello everybody you’re listening to the franchise manual podcast brought to you by Fran man WWW dot Fran where the home of the online manual by Frenchman where we convert your franchise operations manual into a wiki site. The franchise manual podcast is a behind the scenes look at all things franchise and the people that make it look easy. Operating a franchise is not the same as running a small business. So if you’re thinking about franchising your business then you really need to listen to the franchise manual podcast. This is episode 32 And my partner today is a true Texas lady Miss Jackie Hoegger. Miss Jackie is the founder of a small town marketing firm but make no mistake there’s nothing small town about Hoegger communications. Miss Jackie and her team have been winning marketing awards in Wichita Falls Texas for 15 years. And she is elbow deep in the world of franchising. Be it search engine optimization, web and video design, public relations, you name it, it’s marketing, they’re doing it. Miss Jackie and I are going to talk about the importance of marketing to growing a strong franchise system. But more importantly, we bring it to the level of the startup franchisor now I know you’re tired of hearing me talk so let’s hear from the grand lady herself. Miss Jackie Hager the franchise manual podcast brought to you by friend man to free the franchise manual is a behind the scenes look at all things franchise and the people that make it look easy. We’re gonna make this Jackie How the heck are you today and thank you for being my partner on the franchise manual podcast today.

Jackie Hoegger  01:55

Oh my gosh, this is gonna be fun. Thank you for inviting me. Happy to be here. So yay. Thank

Kit  02:02

you so much. Now we’ve been working on setting up this episode for over a year now. And I gotta tell you, I am super jazzed about this one. This is the very first episode where we’re going to talk about marketing.


Well, first of all busy people have lots going on and I know the best have been busy but to spend an hour or two with you. Today’s gonna be great. Good.

Kit  02:25

Okay, so I want to set the proper mood. So I’ve cued up some music so that we can have a good interview. I’ve heard people say, the franchise manual podcast, maybe


you know, it is a Friday afternoon,

Kit  02:44

right? All right. I’m just kidding. That’s not gonna be the mood music. God dang it seriously, seriously, because I am such a nice guy. And I want to make you feel right at home. During this episode. I brought in a special Audience Member I’ve earned some special audience members that will help you feel relaxed because I want you to do well on the interview. Okay, so Hey, guys, will you bring in our special audience members? Yeah, right now. Okay, thanks. Okay, here they come. Right. My goodness, what’s the saying? Is it best thing? Don’t tell. Don’t say that’s cool, right? That’s cool. I brought those in just for you. So don’t tell anybody why they’re here yet. We’re gonna get that later. We’re gonna talk about theater. First. First, I want to do some call outs to some special listeners. Do you mind if I do that? No, not at all. That’s all right. All right. Brandon Neal, Managing Director of franchise transition services at Charles Schwab says I listened to your podcast last week and ended up with several pages of notes get Vinson and Brendan Charles, thank you for your insights and commentary. Mr. Brandon, thank you so much. He commented on LinkedIn. Christopher Merkle owner business manager ultrasound services in Katy, Texas. I really enjoyed podcast 27 franchising one on one. You and your brother did a great job. Very insightful. Thank you, Alex, who five diamonds fitness and wellness in Dallas, Texas. I must tell you, I truly understand why you asked me to listen to the podcast. You have some seriously valuable information on those podcasts. The Bob GAFA gentleman is something else brilliant individual. Thank you so much. John Egidio, founder of bubbleup Boban waffles, San Diego, California wrote, I have to admit that I’m a huge fan of the frame man podcast. I’ve been a regular listener for some time now. And I’ve enjoyed your content and your partners. Thank you so much, guys. To all my listeners. Thank you very much for taking the time to make a comment. That means a lot to me. I love feedback whether negative or positive. So let us hear from you. All right, I’m done.


Well, good, but now That noise the back.

Kit  05:03

Oh no, this goes on for this goes on for. I mean, they’re here it’s not. You’re talking about my studio audience. All right, we can make them go away.


Oh my goodness. That was funny. That was that was that is so perfect for what we’re about to dive into

Kit  05:22

a good, good, good. All right. Let’s get into segment one. Segment one. This is a segment where we learn a little bit about the person Jackie Hager. Are you ready? Are you ready for some questions about you?


Bring it on.

Kit  05:36

Nice. Nice. I love that good. Positive attitude. Yeah. Now it’s Jackie, you know how this goes. Tell me your last name is your married last name. But still, it’s your family name, Hoegger. Tell me what you know about where your people come from? What’s the what’s the origin of that


name? Well, it’s German. Obviously. It looks like Holger it’s not

Kit  05:59

obviously actual not obviously, because this guy shows up in other places too. But keep going.


That’s okay. We are our ancestors on both my maiden and my married name came over in the farming industry and in the dairy industry, and they are considered themselves of German culture. Especially my maiden name, Steinberger. But yeah. So yeah, I mean, that’s what I know. I do know this. My last name is spelled to where it looks like Holger. So that’s how I always know if people know me. Can I speak to Jackie Holger? When it’s really pronounced Hagar? Right.

Kit  06:39

And now you actually have a very famous person in your in your family that most people don’t know this, but you know who that is? Sammy Hagar. Actually,


actually, this will crack you up. I have a son named Sal. I

Kit  07:02

know. We played Sammy Hagar. We play?


We call him Sammy Hagar all the time. Oh, my goodness, he will get a kick out of that. Oh, that’s

Kit  07:13

funny. Well, so here’s what I found out about your last name is that it’s actually it could be because it’s all it’s all different. But it could be a derivative of the last name hogger H O GG er. So a Viking family in ancient Scotland was the first to use the name though hogger. It was a name for a careful and prudent person. Well, in England, the name is derived from an animal. So it’s a it’s a Metatronic surname, which means it’s derived from a from an occupation. So did a little bit of research and looks like that. It could have been a derivative of that. But so it’s very interesting, very interesting. Last name.


Well, thank you. I’m quite proud of it switch.

Kit  07:57

I found lots of instances in Switzerland and have listen of all the hangers in the United States. 22% of them are in Texas. But a lot more in Pennsylvania and Illinois, just in case you do you have family over there as well.


No, I don’t. But I do connect with all of the hikers across the United States on LinkedIn. And that’s been kind of fun.

Kit  08:19

That is fun. That’s pretty cool. All right. Let’s talk about where our special studio audience members come from. Where did you grow up?


I am a farm girl born and raised on a dairy farm in windthorst, Texas. A man and for those of you who don’t know where that German culture is, we are 30 miles south of Wichita Falls about halfway in between Fort Worth in Wichita Falls. So that’ll kind of put it in perspective for you.

Kit  08:56

Okay, then. No, so Texas actually has lots of German immigrants in checklist Avakian immigrants when most people don’t know that, but when you get down into Central Texas, Fredericksburg Pflugerville. I mean, you get Yes, south of Waco, but it was very checked Angela, very Czechoslovakia. And


yes, that’s a great area. All right. So

Kit  09:17

you’re from Texas. We don’t call our guest guests. We call them partners, because I’m from Texas, and I like to celebrate those roots. So we’ve had some other guests that were from Texas Andy Erskine red Boswell, Robinson, RT, Koli, Justin how Doug grows to name a few. So you are added on to the list of infamous or famous I’m not sure which one that would be the list of real Texans that come on the show. So that is fantastic. Well,


thank you. I’m proud to be a Texan. Even though I travel all over the United States often. It’s always nice to come home to the farm.

Kit  09:54

Yeah. Tell me about your parents. How were they when you’re growing up? Were they strict? Were they were you the one who ran the house? else who do we have to think for the modern day Jackie Hoegger?


That would be my dad, Bob or Robert Steinberger, he is self driven and does such a entrepreneurial extraordinaire. He loves hard work. And he instilled it in us. And there were five of us. And we went to a small school and the Catholic community and we would start milking at 4am. And I’m not kidding. This is not a I walked in five miles to in the snow to school. But we we really did. We worked hard growing up. And we were all involved in every aspect of the dairy. And I, I look back in that. And I think it is the best thing that’s ever happened to me as far as setting my work ethic. Does that make sense?

Kit  10:46

That makes absolute sense. I think it’s fantastic. I think, I think that one of the problems that we have today is the kids don’t have to work. And they grow up and they don’t really sometimes some of them don’t get a job, their first job until after college. And they’ve never made their beds and they’ve never done anything. And I think that’s one of the problems in her. Well,


that’s a good point. Someone asked me once, when did you get your first job? And when you’re when you’re on a dairy farm, you start carrying milk bottles when you can walk, right? Yes. And so I don’t know any other way. So I think back at that time growing up on the farm, and I wouldn’t change it for anything

Kit  11:28

I would love to do. I would work for your dad for a week for free, just so I can I think that would be so fun.


Well, we’re about to start putting up hay and silage in about 30 days. So really, yeah, yeah, yes.

Kit  11:39

So were you a textbook child, when you were growing up? Did you have a wild side that nobody knows about? Inquiring minds want to know. Tell me what you were like as a child. Do you have brothers and sisters? All that?


I do? There are five of us. I’m number two. But I was the outgoing one. I loved art and drama and storytelling and creative. So I’m the creative soul of the family. My sister is an attorney. She’s the number one. She’s no she’s number three. The game is so my brothers are all in the farming business. So I just loved anything where you could create. And I think that brought me where I am today because I look at things and go how can we tell the story of that thing? How can I get eyeballs and attention on that thing? And I remember thinking like that is early as five or six years old? Yeah, it’s pretty great.

Kit  12:37

So you’re not gonna tell me any any stories about no. You know what’s, what’s the what did you do to get in trouble the most you ever got in trouble? What was it that?


Okay, I’ll tell you this. I did take my parents station wagon. Oh, nice, supposed to be driving. And I ran it through a farmer’s field and his name was Mr. Barrett. And of all times for Mr. Barend to be driving down the road was exactly when I ran through his fence line. You go baby, so there you go. So all I remember was all I remember was Mr. Barrett just looked at me and said I’ll see you at 7:30am when we repair that fence

Kit  13:20

Oh, isn’t that great? See, he could have gotten Amen scream be said no, you’re gonna come here and fix this sucker. I did love it. All right. You went you went to high school at


went to high school at windthorst High School was great. We only had 30 People in our class. So you had to love each other from kindergarten through graduation because that’s who you were stuck with. But they were amazing people go Trojans, right yo Trojans. I mean, like I’m telling you, we have some serious Texas football, some serious women’s basketball and volleyball. We have more state monuments in front of our school. It’s just unbelievable. So we may be small but we are mighty if windthorst Nice

Kit  14:01

and so for all you people with your minds in the gutters, it’s not that kind of Trojan. We’re talking about the little warriors. The warriors from Troy, the warriors from Troy and here we are get back in the game. Now did anyone that you went to high school with ended up being famous besides you? Well,


I’m not so sure. I don’t know about that. I’d have to really think about that. But I can tell you that some of us are scattered all over the world and we stay in contact but I will tell you most people that grow up in windthorst may go off but many of them come back home because you talk about a great place to raise a family so it’s great Home is where the heart is Home is where the so

Kit  14:40

I went to a school with a graduating class of 29 people and Notre Dame and and I graduated 28 By the way out of 29 but I like that small school experience. We go now in high school where I live it’s got For the total population is like 4000 people. It’s like holy cow that’s like college. Some colleges aren’t even that big. All right after high school, did you go straight to college? Or did you take some time off and explore what would you do? Give me a quick synopsis of your life up to an including Hager communications, but just to kind of skim over


the speed demon graduated on a Sunday moved out on a Tuesday, started school at Midwestern State University, which is now called MSU, Texas, graduated from there worked my way all through college, got a teaching degree, taught for a few years worked retail through college, which was my love, because I love people bought a six month old retail store owned it for 26 years in which

Kit  15:48

the peri that’s how, that’s how our families met. Actually, that


is how our that yes, because your sister worked for me for many years. And oh my gosh, if I start talking about stop, sweetest man on the face of this earth, but anyway on that for 26 years, and it was just a joy, but the marketing side of that business was my favorite part. As soon as I sold it, all of my customers, including the men, were calling me to say can you market our business like you marketed your store and hence, fast forward another 15 years? Here we are with Hager communications clients and 23 states. We have a staff of 16 people were in addy award winning agency and we are just having a blast getting eyeballs and attention on our clients businesses.

Kit  16:39

Wow, that is so cool. That is so cool. We’re gonna talk later about how you can help your startup franchisors. But I think that’s fantastic. Miss Jackie, you made it past segment one. Congratulations.


Thank you. I feel honored. But spending time with you is fun, because we know we’re gonna laugh. And I know we’re and we’re going to talk about one of my favorite topics marketing. See

Kit  17:04

that’s, that’s a requirement that I have that that people are passionate about the topic that we’re going to talk about. So you know what, before you come on, I want to make sure that what we’re going to talk about you’re passionate about because if you’re not, it’s not going to be fun to listen to


a man. I mean, it’s got to make your blood tap dance. If you can’t get up every morning and go, How can I do this better? How can we get more eyeballs? How can we get more conversions? How can we get more leads? How can we change our messaging? That’s what fuels my fire.

Kit  17:32

That’s exciting. Yeah, sometimes, sometimes I’ve talked to people about topics and it’s just it’s just like


Well, let’s hope that it’s not happening today. But you know, marketing is the necessity of life. It’s like the air that you breathe.

Kit  17:50

Exactly. Yeah. Okay. All right. So segment two guys is kiddo. Segment two is our topic segment. And that’s the real meat and potatoes of the episode we’re going to talk about marketing. This topic is so huge. The word is so vague and misused. Let’s narrow the topic down a lot. Let’s talk about marketing specifically as it pertains to kiddos. You know what that music means? You know the word same along with me. We’re gonna talk about Rudra with Boudreau and burgers.


Oh, Boudreaux Boudreau, the logo Boudreau.

Kit  18:30

I know I know okay, here’s the Official contest for all the listeners. If you send me a blue Droz burgers logo and a T shirt you’ll get special mention on the show. A man Boudreau, Boudreau makes the best burgers around when and people come from miles away for his particularly pleasing Patty perfection. But while Boudreau mate knows everything about making burgers, Boudreau don’t know nothing about marketing. Right? All right. So what I want to do is I’ll kind of want to target this towards the Boudreaux is of the world. These are people who, who are doing something, they figured out how to do something better than everybody else. And that’s the problem. It’s a big problem in franchising, what happens is, you figure out how to make the best burger had a roll of best burrito, how to train a dog, how to do whatever it is, and you learn how to make money at it. And people see that these what I call entrepreneur lights, franchisees prospective franchisees, they, they see that and they go, Ooh, I want to do that. So they come to you and they go, hey, I want to be, are you franchising and Boudreau says I’m not franchising well you need to and if you do, I’ll be your franchisee will so all of a sudden Boudreau says okay, I’m going to be a franchisor and there aren’t any if any, I don’t know if there are any yet still degrees in franchising, there are some there are some classes and franchisee at a few locations. But guys, people come into this world to become a franchisor they go Yep, I’m going to be I’m a franchisor now and they don’t know what they don’t know. And it’s not the same as running your business and there are so many different flavors to it marketing is the is the big one, because now, I may be good at flipping burgers and I may be good at marketing Boudreau to my community. But the people that I need to talk to now are not the people that are going to eat the burgers necessarily, there could be some overlap, but now I need to market to a different group of people. That’s the entrepreneur light. That’s the people who are going to be my prospective franchisees, right?


Correct and that Oh, my goodness, that is a whole new adventure. So Boudreaux is no longer making the perfect patty. Boudreau is thinking how can I make more money and find the right licensed franchisee the key word there being the licensed?

Kit  20:54

Right. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, he’s got to find people that are maybe similar to him, but maybe not we I don’t want an entrepreneur to come in because he’s going to want to rent things. Point is I got to market to people that want to go into business and be a burger franchisee. And that’s a very different deal. How does he find people who will be interested in being franchisees of the world famous Boudreaux burger you and I met before the show, and we did some brainstorming. And you came up with seven things that the startup franchisor now that he’s got his FTD done, and he’s hired the world famous Frenchman to produce his operations manual, right, good. So he now is ready, and he’s ready to offer his franchise so that he can grant franchises to to prospective franchisees. How does he put his name in front of them? And one of the things you said is you said brand on fire. What does that mean, talk to us about that?


Well, Bucha has got some work to do before he thinks people will just run to him. He’s got to own his own concept and elevate his own brand. And Boudreaux has to become the key authority of the perfect Patti. And the way Boudreau is burgers work so he has to go beyond simple brand awareness and he’s got to stand out I mean, he’s got to own that lane that he is the perfect burger franchise that someone who’s interested in opening up a food franchise needs to go to so just because he makes and flips the perfect patty doesn’t mean people are going to start running. So what is Boudreau doing on the side? Is he talking about his brand? Is he setting himself up is he does he have all the tools that he needs and what’s his story every franchisor has a story what’s Boudreau story that got him passionate about flipping the perfect burger, and we’ve got to figure out how to tell his story. So that excitement and that energy and that passion he can tell to that future possible franchisee who wants to dive into his culture and understand what he does and why does So number one, his brand has to get on fire now that’s a marathon. It’s not a sprint. Yeah.

Kit  23:14

So talk to him about that. I know. So that’s, that’s so that’s one of those things to me. It’s easy to say. It’s hard to do hard to do. So what does it mean? I’m Boudreau, what am I going to do? I’ve got a cool story. My My grandmother had this recipe and I’ve got it and I’m going to start this marathon this is something that would be that would go on, you would hope would go on would start immediately but would keep on going because you have to develop that over time. But what does what does he do? And they just this he just saying coming up with a story and what’s the next step? How do you do that


he has to hone in on his god given skills and figure out what he does best to tell the story of his brand. And is that video is that blog writing? Is that just video of you watching him do it? Is that video of his customers who can’t live without a Boudreaux burger at least every Friday night? What is it that makes him special? And then how does Boudreau relate to his customers? How does he build the perfect team and tell that story? How does he get back to his community? What makes Boudreaux Boudreaux that we can literally pick him up and duplicate him over and over and over again, and that’s his brand, and it takes a lot of work? It’s not going to happen overnight. And in fact, I would suggest that Boudreaux flipped burgers for a long time, constantly thinking when is the right time to open up the door to say Alright, I’m ready to take candidates to be possible franchisees because I can promise you today’s future franchisees are doing a lot of research before they ever fill out a form or pick up the phone or, or go online and, and start digging out to reaching out to you they’re going to be watching so Boudreaux has 1000s of people watching him do what he does best. So he’s got to partner up with the right marketing people from a hyperlocal level to define what are his pillars? What do I stay on for? And what is my brand stand for? And then how do I get that messaging out?

Kit  25:20

Alright, so would you say that some of these things on this list maybe this one included is something that most Boudreau ‘s out there are going to need help with that’s that that’s not necessarily something that they most people can sit back and go, Oh, I get it. I’m going to do that on my on my own. It sounds to me a little bit more. More.


It is twofold. One is, remember, it’s not it’s a marathon and not a sprint. And the minute that Boudreaux thinks he’s got something special, he’s going to know it in his heart. And if he thinks he might want to walk the franchise Road, then that’s where he really sits down with the experts and gets a solid plan. How many more years? Do I need to flip burgers? Or how many more months until I have a brand that’s on fire locally, that someone will take that gut wrenching chance of saying I want to be your first franchisee

Kit  26:13

you know what, I tell people this all the time, we come into the process as the manual production company at the very beginning. And they haven’t made their decisions yet on what model they’re going to use to expand whether they’re going to use like the subway model where it’s going to be in Hawaii, and then Florida, and then California and then Maine and Texas all over the place. Or if they’re going to expand out from the center and use the goodwill the brand as a springboard to grow and grow that way. So it’s much faster, but I always tell people that that’s the best way. Use the power of your brand locally and just go out just a little bit. Yep. And then that way you can springboard off of that. And that’s what you’re saying, Get your brand on fire so that when you do start franchising, and you can use that goodwill to help you as a springboard, right? Well, there’s


no doubt if you start with a nucleus, and you ease out 30 miles and 30 miles north 30 miles south 30 miles east and then go into the next community and then branch out to the next community. That’s the most logical way to do it. And I think that gives you more of a solid brand quicker. Now you may have a one off because you’ve got a cousin in Seattle who thinks they want to open up so every once awhile you’ll have those one off requests. But I think the most successful brands, own a territory that own the next territory right beside it right and then go from there.

Kit  27:31

And that’s the key, you own that territory that we’re nobody could come in even if they want it to end. The problem is and this is the biggest mistake I see. And it’s got to be the most difficult thing for someone in your position. As a marketeer. Normally they start off not on a bootstrap but franchisors sometimes don’t have tons of money. And they’re saying they want to franchise but they probably should wait till they save some money, but they do it anyway. And somebody comes to them from California and say, Hey, we want to Bucha those burgers in California and they see that money they Okay, so now they’ve got one there. And then some like I said someone from Maine, someone from from Florida will for you, you now have to be able to market to all those people in all those different markets. How does it doesn’t that just make it exponentially more difficult to market?


Of course it does. I mean, it’s doable. Don’t get me wrong, you know, because you want to be the local burger place for the local neighborhood, etc. But if we can cross market from locations that are very close, you know, you’re on this side of town, bringing your kid to ballet classes, you go the other side of town to go to the high school and boom, there’s another Bhutto’s burgers, then that chatter feeds off of each other. So it is by far the most logical sense because then your marketing messaging can cross over and you can get more power in a DMA. But if you’ve got a one off in San Francisco, then there needs to be a two often a three off in San Francisco. So you want to look at those franchisees is hopefully are they more of a one location? Or can I get them to five locations within five years? Interesting?

Kit  28:58

Yep. So if you do a one off then you need to start growing from two bases. Try to do a man


got a man and just say we’re gonna land in these two ports, and we’re gonna build from these two ports.

Kit  29:11

Absolutely. Gotta gotta got it. All right. Number two on your list said social all the way baby. What is that? What do you mean by that?


Well, however you feel today about social media, it has been the best ROI from the marketing world to get your brand out there. So telling your story as a franchisor on social media makes sense. And your new franchisees are most likely watching you not only did they eat the burger, they probably ran across Boudreau on Facebook because he’s at his kids basketball game, and he brought booed rose burgers for the whole team. And then if Boudreau is smart he’s over on LinkedIn and he’s delivering burgers to nurses because it’s nurses day So social media, depending on the platform is by far the cheapest way for you to tell your story. And then of course, you want to do it from a paid search and a targeted market area only if you can define what does Boudreau think? Who is the portfolio and the profile of the perfect boot rose burgers franchise about what age they are, what income they are, and then we’re going to go after them.

Kit  30:27

That’s cool. It makes sense. It does. Yeah, what a lot of people don’t get because a lot of people in business today have never been around when there was no social media, it’s always been there for them, they don’t understand it used to have to spend $25,000, to get to get a full page in a magazine. And you didn’t have the opportunities that you do right now on social media to get to people and to really dial it in to Good lord, you can dial it into hair color, if you want it to almost in its system. It’s just an amazing platform.


If you’d like red pins, I could go find anyone who’s ever searched a red pen, right? I mean, think about it, Amazon is so grateful that you bought that toothpaste from them. But what they’re really grateful for is your data. And then big companies like Oracle love to just eat up that data. And then my job is to go up to Oracle and grab those impressions and say, guess what, there’s a red pen store opening in Boston, and I need anyone from this address within a 10 mile radius that’s ever searched or purchase for a red pen.

Kit  31:24

Have you seen this show on Netflix? It’s the social dilemma I have. And it’s like, Whoa, there, the end of what I liked the lion I came away from that the best that I loved is that if you’re not paying for the product, then you are the product.


That is so true. But But I will say this social media allows people not only to watch you from the outside in, it also allows them to start to trust you and trust your product and trust your franchise and trust your burgers and trust the wisdom of the franchisor and go you know what Boudreaux has got it going on. I’ve always wanted to take my life savings or my 401 K have always wanted to do something, maybe a legacy. I leave my children. I’ve always loved burgers. It’s a Friday night staple at our house. I want to be Boudreaux. Let’s go get it. Yep,

Kit  32:14

I think that’s awesome. All right, number three on our list the power of the existing franchisees? What is that all about?


Well, we were thrown into the franchise world about seven years ago with a particular franchise and I love the franchisor I love the vision and the energy and the passion and mostly the speed and innovation of a franchisor. And when they find the right franchisees, it’s like solid gold, that I mean, the heavens open up, and that is your number one asset are your current franchisees. No one can sing your praises more than your current franchisees. So you have to garner that energy and that passion and that love. And you gotta let them tell your story. Because I promise you a future franchise is more interested in what your existing franchisees are saying about you

Kit  33:09

know, we had a guy named Pete balding on the show years ago, and he was with quick change oil from location one to location 1400. He’s now with another company called Moran Family of Brands and they’re all automotive, but point is, is that he was saying, when we have our prospective franchisees come in, we coach them on the validation calls, because we’re talking about validation calls, right? That’s the when the front when the prospective franchisee calls an existing franchisee, and says, Tell me about this guy. Tell me and what you want is you want that franchisee to say oh my god, this is the best thing since sliced bread. They said that they said they were going to support us on XY and Z. And they have supported us on XY and Z but also p d and q and whatever it is that you want them singing your praises. And that’s what you’re saying. It’s interesting because what he what he actually does is say hey, listen, you’re gonna make validation calls or we’re gonna give you the full list and you might hear some things negative about us. And if you do, here’s what I want you to think about as you’re listening to it. And it’s like, hey, if if he says he’s not doing well ask him how much he spends on. I asked him how much he spends on advertising, right? Yes. If he doesn’t ask him what’s what’s his marketing budget?


Right. Ask him if he understands the processes ask him if he’s trying to reinvent the wheel that’s already right solid system. No doubt about that. I always say the first year of a franchisee when they go into business is there are times where they’ll step back and go I could do this better. And you have to remind them you know, why did you buy a franchise to begin with? You know, the system is already proven solid. There is a sandbox Fox, staying within the sandbox will pay you more revenue, we are better as a team versus having one franchise doing something totally different. So there really is power to be learned from that as well for a future franchise. So think about that. You want them to talk to a wide variety of franchisees, if you’re wanting to bring them, your family, you think about that for a second, you will spend more time in this franchise, if you do it right, then you probably will at home with your own family and other franchisees, along with the operations manager and the marketing and the CMO and the CFO and all those people with those vendors. All of those people wrapped up in one, they become your secondary family. Right. And you are better when everybody’s on the same page. Yep, always.

Kit  35:51

Yep. All right. That is the power of the existing franchisees and I think that’s very solid. And the takeaway here is, if you’re thinking about marketing, and as you’re growing your franchise system, marketing is not only about spending money with Facebook, spending money on radio, it’s also about nurturing your existing franchisees because they are not just indirectly but directly an arm of your marketing, because prospective franchisees are going to talk to them,


you’re exactly right, they are your word of mouth, number one. And number two, when you communicate well with your franchisees and I always say you know, communication is in our name. And that’s how important it is to me. I’m telling you right now, if you think about every problem you ever have with your kids, your teenager, your spouse, your teachers, your co workers, does it almost always come back to communication? Almost always right? So your franchisees deserve the best communication system that you can give them to set them up for success so that they in turn can be your best advocates for future growth.

Kit  37:00

Got it? All right. Number four. Web Oh, web, web. Oh, Web. Are you tonight? Why did you leave me here all alone? All right, what is what is web a Web?


Web a web means your website, your website for your franchise is the front door to your business. Got it. And while while your guests and your customers may be coming to your website, to purchase or book time, whatever you have, or whatever product that you franchise, if your presence is not there, want to join our family want to own your own franchise, click here. That’s the homepage. That’s everything. So not only is it the front door to your business, and for future franchisees, I promise you, they’re going to go there first. So you want to make it so easy that when a feature franchise goes to your website, that they feel welcomed, that they feel that they matter that they feel that you care because you want it clear and clean and simple right there at the beginning. Click here and let’s talk if you want to be the next food rose burgers, we want to talk

Kit  38:15

so what you’re saying right now makes me think about something makes me want to pull away a little bit because we said earlier marketing is a huge broad term and it’s sometimes it’s misused and sometimes it’s not but it’s not just about placing the ads. Marketing is about placing the ads but it’s also about treating your existing franchisees rights, they get word of mouth, it’s also about the customer journey and not just the customer that’s eating the burger but the customer that you want to be a franchisee their customer journey is when they open up you know they open up a file in their in their head and every time they see you they put something in that file folder and it could be positive or negative and it creates it determines the brand because brand exists in everybody’s head. It doesn’t brand is not something you can say here’s our brand brand exists in the head of the consumer in this case, it would be a prospective franchisee so when they go to your website, it’s not just about the website for the company to the consumer. It’s also about the website to that you might have a special website for franchisees to go through you should and it’s about it’s about spending, get off your wallet, Boudreaux get off your wallet and do it right. Don’t skimp here because if they go to that franchising website, and it looks like Sanford and Son, people are going to leave Is that Is that what you’re saying? I don’t want to put words.


I mean, I wish I could have recorded the last two minutes. myself. I am just telling you, it is the first step the very first step if you’re gonna come out of the gate, come out of the gate strong because chances are someone’s already eaten a Boudreaux burger before they even think about being a franchisee I would think most franchise form fills are coming because they experienced your franchise to begin with. And then they did their research by going to your website, following you on the social media. They’re following the franchisor. How does he positioned himself they go back to your website? How easy is it for me to connect with you? And then that’s when the magic begins to happen. So I, you’re right. I mean, marketing is the color of your logo. Marketing is a T shirt. Marketing is an ad marketing is the way that you treat your franchisees. It’s everything. So start by opening up your wallet and make sure that website is perfect. Perfect.

Kit  40:41

You look marvelous baby. absolutely marvelous. All right. So just for the sake of the listener, I know what is a form fill, you said when you get a franchisee form fill? Will you explain to everyone what that is? Please?


Well, anytime someone comes to your website, not only should you have software that tracks who’s coming, you want them to take an action, so there’s a call to action. And then that action can be counted as a conversion in the marketing world, but I want them to do something. And typically a conversion is one of three things, I’m either going to walk into your business, that mostly does not happen. Number two, I’m going to pick up the phone and call you. Or number three, I’m going to fill out this quick form. And then that’s going to go to the powers that be at the right desk and the immediate attention to that form fill you know what is the franchise journey at that point, you immediately want to send them an email we received your form fill you just have no idea. It means the world to us that not only do you love Boudreaux burgers, but that you might want to become part of our family. We can’t wait to visit with you. So in the meantime, enjoy a burger. And we’ll get right back with you. You see what I’m saying? That would make you feel good,

Kit  41:50

man, I see what you’re saying. And it’s more than that. It actually guys, number four goes much deeper than a website. Because we’re talking about, Gosh, I don’t even know where to start, we’re talking about capturing a lead. And then before and now once we’ve captured it, we’re talking about what’s the value of that lead that over the lifetime of a franchise of a contract. So if I have a $30,000 franchise fee, and I have 6% royalties for the next 10 years, and let’s say that everybody stays on for two terms. And it’s 20 years, guys, that’s good. That’s a 250 $300,000 lead, and I and I’m trying to spend two $500 1000 2000 $3,000, on a website, I’m trying to change out on a $2,000 website, and I’m gonna lose a 250 $300,000 lead. And then if I was lucky enough that I’m the hog that find the bland hog that finds in a corner with my crappy website. And I don’t have a good CRM system that take that and capture it and hold on to that lead in someone doesn’t call them back. I just didn’t call back. I just I just forgot about somebody who’s worth that 1/3 of a million dollars to me,


amen, my friend. And on top of that, they may not react to the very first journey, which would be the thank you email for coming onto our site, and letting us know a little bit about you. If they stop there, your journey should never stop. Because you and I both know that life gets in the way and things get busy. And maybe they had a death in their family, anything could have happened. But if you reach out again in 24 or 36 hours, and then you have another touch maybe in about five business days, you will never know if on that third touch is where the magic really began. And you ended up on a journey with the best franchise e you ever had. And you almost blew it.

Kit  43:45

But see what I’m saying. I do see what you’re saying. But I what I’m just gonna continue on saying is that the number, the dollar number doesn’t stop there. Because that guy, that guy is going to be a franchisee and you’re gonna blow his socks off. And he’s gonna sit there and every validation call that comes through, he’s gonna say, Man, this is fantastic. He’s gonna help you get five more. And it’s so it doesn’t stop there. It’s It’s ridiculous how people and what happens is we let human error get in the way we go. I’m too cheap to get a CRM, I’m too cheap. I don’t have the money or I tried to start a tried to franchise too soon. And I can’t afford a good CRM system. So 10 They start advertising and Facebook and they get 20 calls. Well, they can’t take 20 calls, they can’t handle that many. And and then all of a sudden, 10 of them get lost. And who knows which of those 10 were going to be the lottery ticket, the golden ticket with the candy bar, right? And you don’t know. But if you had a CRM system in place that every time someone filled out that form, they automatically went into a CRM, they automatically got set up on these drip campaigns. Guys, it’s all it’s all autopilot and you didn’t lose a single one and there’s no human error.


So so what we learned in just this last five minutes I probably should have gone up to number two right after on fire. Don’t

Kit  45:07

even get me started. Don’t get me started.


It’s like my hands are on top of my head right now if you could see my office, I could go. Can I just stand up and give a big a man brother? Yes, yes. All right. Oh,

Kit  45:25

the good news is the good news is we’re recording this in that crazy.


Well, you know, when you talk marketing, it makes me happy. But what I’m mostly proud of what you said two or three times is how broad the term marketing is. It’s everything. It’s a feel. It is a color, it is a sound, it is a smell, it is all of that it’s an ad. It’s a Facebook post. It’s a website. It’s all of that wrapped up in one, all of it. So thank you for absolutely mentioning that.

Kit  45:59

Alright, so let’s keep it moving. And let’s keep it simple. In a complicated process. That’s number five, keep it simple in a complicated process. What does that mean?


Well, I think this is where we make some of our biggest mistakes as marketers, even we in our field, do it and franchisors in with your whole team is we try to make a simple process overcomplicated, you know, these franchisees are these future possible franchisees, they’re so excited, and you’ve got them on mostly a pretty good high, if they’ve reached out number one, number two, they may have experienced your product or your event or whatever it is. And number three, the last thing we want to do is make this process of kicking the can down the road complicated. So let’s give them a simple process from the very first bite. And then as you discover this person at you’re going to figure out if they fit within your culture, and within your franchise family, and to make them feel welcomed from the get go. And if they if they go through all of that, once we know they’re financially, most likely going to be a fit, and there is space for them in the territory that they’re seeking. We kind of like that. And then we get them to discovery days, you want them to look back and go, it was the best process I ever did. Because remember, they’re gonna go up to number three, and sing your praises with the power of existing franchisees down the road. And what a great thing for them to say, You know what, from the very first time I made contact with this franchise, it’s been fun. It’s been energetic. It’s been educational, and I have felt part of the family. Let’s don’t mess up that stash. So

Kit  47:50

what’s the takeaway here? I didn’t have me cuz I’m slow. I’m thick. What is the takeaway? What can I do as Boudreau? How can I implement this one? Because it’s Keep It Simple in a complicated process make it easy for him. What does that in practice? What does that mean? Well, you’re


going to take them on a journey, kind of like we did on the web on web journey, you should have a journey filled out where, you know, they go through the process, but someone needs to take hold of that particular franchisee, and own them, like they’re my new brother or sister. And my job is to make sure that they go through every step, and that I’m communicating. There’s that word again, I’m communicating with them every step of the way so that I don’t ever lose them in a step because chances are if burgers are their thing, you’re not the only burger franchise they’re checking out. Okay, so so be the star burger franchise. And maybe they decide the next day they want tacos. So the next day, whatever, right so if if you attach a mentor or someone with them every step of the way, we’re gonna make this got his hire process. Simple and non complicated.

Kit  49:00

Got it? All right. Number six eyeballs and attention what it could lower notice that mean,


my favorite, favorite, my head, my favorite two words. I’m telling you right now, you’ve got to optimize your appeal and let these future franchisees see the way you treat your current franchisees. Okay, and as true partners as Trooper, let me say that again, as true partners, and the support programs that come along the way and the rapport that they have with each with each other. Because in the end, don’t we want to grab those great franchisees and hopes that they fall in love with your culture, and your brand and your pillars and your standards and they love you so much, that that one location turns into five have locations, right? So eyeballs and attentions. Attention means I am watching you. I’m watching you, from the first time we had discovery days. And I sat on that bus and drove me to one of the locations at Booth rose, and you served me a good burger. They’re watching you, just like if you were dating, for the very first time. So eyeballs and attention are so important. And don’t think for a second, that they don’t pick up on kindness, humility, compassion, because we can get so in the weeds with the logistics of a franchise, they need to know the real person and who you are. And I think sometimes that step gets left out. And I just want to make sure that you understand every step of the way, they never take their eyes off of you, ever.

Kit  50:54

I think that people don’t understand the power of culture. And I’m gonna give an example. I was listening to podcasts the other night called Hardcore History. And Dan Carlin is the guy that does it. And he was talking about a world war two Japanese soldier came out of the woods in 1970, something or 1969 still thought the war was on, had been surviving and accumulating ammunition the whole time, because his commanding officer told him Do not stop until you’re dead. And he his culture, the Japanese culture at the time, you have to imagine when young men would go off to fight and War and World War Two, their mothers would give them a knife and say, if you get caught use this, do not let yourself be captured by the by the enemy, their mothers were giving him that that’s what the culture was. So it’s so powerful that this guy didn’t come out of the woods until the until the 60s, and they had to go find his commanding officer, and find out where he was he was using, like our used bookstore, they found him they flew him all the way there and said, Hey, lay your arms down. And the guy came at users since written books, but the point I’m making is this corporate culture is is equally powerful. How we develop our corporate culture, you’re we’re not going to have people in the woods for for 40 years, but but it does, it does really mean a lot to people. And when the franchisees that prospective franchisees are coming. That’s, that’s very powerful. They’re going to pick up on that culture. And if you have really developed your corporate culture, that will be the silver bullet that closes that deal. When they go in there. Imagine going to Disney and seeing everybody how they act today and say, Oh my God, look at that culture. I want to be part it’s infectious.


It is infectious. Think of Chick fil A Yeah, I mean, oh my gosh, you know, that’s probably the number one thing everybody says, I’m gonna get a Chick fil A franchise. Well,

Kit  53:10

no, you’re not.


I’m gonna you know. So. You’re exactly right. And here’s the thing. No one can ever take your culture away from you. If you stay the path, stay the path. And I promise you, there is nothing more important or monumental than having your entire franchise team on the same page with a culture. I agree.

Kit  53:39

Yep. 100%. Absolutely. But you got it, you have to have one. Now there’s some people that don’t even really have.


It starts all the way back to Boudreau when he had his first or no rapid back to one of our one going back to number one, I’m telling you, it starts with him and how he treated his employees how he flipped that burger and how he made those get that guest experience. So amazing, because let me tell you, we can talk all day long, all day long about marketing. But at the end of the day, if your guest experience is not there, you’re fighting a losing battle and losing battle.

Kit  54:17

We were writing the manual several manuals for ServiceMaster and part of our culture is on the site visit we like to say we put the fun back in funeral because going through the going through the manual process is horrible, right? So if we can make it fun, then people will want to be part of it. So we’ve done this case, we had to go back for a second round of site visits. And in our site visits we’ve got Plato’s Slinkys footballs, hot wheel cars, snacks and as part of our culture, right yeah, on the second site visit one of the doors was left open and somebody walked past the room and good Hey, friend man’s back and it just like, oh, just like warms my heart.


That’s good. And you know, everybody has to be no for something that you’re known for playdough What can I say? You know, our office is known, you know, for m&ms and peach iced tea and coffee. Nice. Oh, yeah. And then we do your marketing

Kit  55:10

play. Yeah, exactly. And we do it better than anybody else. By the way, we


try hard to do it better than anybody else. Okay, gosh, oh my god.

Kit  55:17

So all that stuff is hard is not for the 101 it says not necessarily for Boudreau, some boo Droz may have more abilities, more natural abilities in marketing and sales and B, and we’d be more creative and be able to listen to what we just talked about, and implement some some of that, but most of them I would say, not. And that leads us to number seven, which is hire an agency.


Well, here’s what I you know, this is the one thing my dad always taught us grow up, and I’m gonna go back to that dairy farm time, he

Kit  55:52

always say I’m gonna go back to the dairy farm. Well,


for just a moment, okay. My dad always said, do what you do well, and hire done what you cannot do. I mean, think about that. We’ve all been given incredible talented gifts. And if that’s numbers, or you know, whatever it is, sure, but you cannot on all of the pillars of your franchise, one of them cannot be weak. One of them cannot be to their potential. What

Kit  56:23

are the three pillars? Wait, your skin


depends on it. I mean, every brand should have pillars of their brand. And guys,

Kit  56:31

we’re from Texas. We’re not talking about the thing you sleep on, though. We’re talking about. Yeah, okay, continue.


So if one of those pillars is unstable, or weak, your whole franchise will suffer from it. So if marketing is not your gig, okay, got it. But I mean, we have we work with franchisees that marketing is their gig. So we come in and analyze their plans, and they pay us just to look at their plans, make tweaks and changes to their plans, and they pay us for that. And then we have other franchisees we do everything for so everybody’s different.

Kit  57:08

So tell me what is it like for a somebody that’s in Boudreaux shoes in comes to Hager communications, and says, hey, help us out?


Well, there’s a discovery process just like discovery, you know, we sit down with them, and I have to figure out where they’re happy places in their heart, and what is their story for their franchise? And where are they in the other lanes? You know, how far down the other lines are you? What are your one year goals, three year goals and five year goals. And then we sit back and do a lot of listening and let them do a lot of talking. And then we come back and we get in our war room here at Hager. We got a war room, and we all get in there and we literally just like throwing mud on a wall. They need to do this and they need to do this and what about this and who is the customer and it’s our job to go experience that product. If it’s Boudreau burgers, the first thing I need to do is go to Buddha rose burgers as a customer and experience the perfect patty and experience the atmosphere and then we come back and we decide, okay, let’s build their brand. Let’s build their pillars and let’s start telling this story my friends and let’s get on it. That’s what we do.

Kit  58:25

Okay, so you’ve gone through the War Room, you’ve thrown everything in this wall see what see what stuck and then you get stabbed then you recommend to them a series of you know what, here’s what we think you should do in a perfect world if money was not an object with that you should do 1-234-567-8910 And and then you look at your budget. Now this is going to lead me to this this final question maybe is which is what does Boudreau what should Boudreau have in his war chest before he says, hey, you know what, I’m gonna start franchising. I’m thinking about franchising. I’m gonna go listen to the franchise manual podcast, and I get to episode number 32. And, and I’m listening to this, what do I need? How much money should I have in my war chest before I start this process? And I realize it’s different in every market, it’s like saying, how long is the string? But zeros, not the number and a million is not the number. What’s the what are the what’s an ideal, you say, you know, if someone comes to me and they’ve got a marketing budget of x, we’re going to blow their socks off. But you know what, they could probably do it with y. But if they only have z, that’s they’re not there yet.


And you know, we have to be honest with them and tell them that under capitalized even in your marketing department could lead to ultimate failure and you just can’t afford to take that chance. So when we meet with them, once we figure out exactly what we need, we tell them this is what it’s going to take to get this going and most of the time, they’re already mentally there. You’d be surprised because we’re not the first thing they come to. Sometimes we’re the third or fourth step in the equation of the franchise world.

Kit  1:00:00

You’re not going to answer my question or you


will, because there is no perfect number. It’s like calling and asking me, Hey, Jackie, I need a website. Can you give me a price on a website? And I go, Oh my gosh, well, what do you want the website to do? Is there ecommerce to the site? It can just go on and on and on.

Kit  1:00:15

Still, yeah, I know, but just say, you know, what, if they come to you with $10,000, you’re gonna say, You know what, for no matter what we’re gonna do, that’s not enough. Right? So Correct. Nor are we north of $100,000.


Not necessarily. Okay, hands on. Yeah. Easy.

Kit  1:00:33

That was That was so easy. Okay, cool. So if you were in that range, you could do you could you could do something, but if you had more, it’d be better and obviously, and I get it, I get it. It’s all very different. And I’m don’t want to


pin you because you know, they do have to pay for that manual. They’re getting done too.

Kit  1:00:49

Oh, yeah. That’s gonna dry him up fast. That’s gonna dry him up fast. All right, little miss Jackie. That was the end of segment two.


Well, Yay, I did it.

Kit  1:01:11

Gotta have only have one sound at a time. Oh, wait. I think we can have two sounds at a time. Nice. Alright, so the cows go on for like four minutes. I’m going to turn them off. Okay. All right. segment three of our podcast episode is it’s it’s all about the fun. This is a quick draw segments. Quick questions, quick answers. It’s a fun part. Yeah, it’s a fun part to kind of wind down the episode.


Okay, are you ready? Shoot a man.

Kit  1:01:47

Nice. Nice when you’re not working. What do you do for fun? And don’t? Don’t tell me milk cows are raised. No, I don’t. Okay, good. Good.


No, I don’t read. I read but I don’t have a whole lot of downtime because work is fun to me. But if I do

Kit  1:02:03

that to throw up against I get mute my microphone. Okay, read. That’s the best or eat chocolate. I’m gonna say chocolate. Ooh, I love that. That’s good. So are you? Are you do you read for fun? Or do you only read for self help stuff?


A little bit of both? Depending what what mood I’m in, but I’ll read a little bit about what’s your favorite fiction book? To Kill a Mockingbird? Really? Uh huh. And self help book. I love them all. Some of my favorite books to read are by Seth Godin. He just lights my fire and gets my blood tap dancing in marketing. And he always challenges me with his books. So probably Seth Godin, Gary Vaynerchuk for marketing.

Kit  1:02:53

Okay. So the way that you determine the value to you have a self help book is how many times you’ve gifted it to somebody which one of them? Amen. Which one of those have you given to people more


crushed by Gary Vaynerchuk is probably the one I’ve given the most. All right,

Kit  1:03:08

there you go. All right. Yeah. You’d like to watch TV? Or do you have a favorite movie? One of those two?


Oh, my all time favorite movie would probably the one that affected me the most. And really, I walked out of the theater going, I don’t think I’ll ever be the same again with Schindler’s List in which I walked out of there went, Oh, my God, I love mankind more today than I did yesterday. What can I do to my fellow man to make sure that this never ever, ever happens again?

Kit  1:03:37

That’s a fantastic answer. What about your TV shows? Are you binge watching anything?


Yeah, I am. I’m doing the crown at the moment. Oh, yeah. That’s good. Yeah, I’m on app. I think I’m on season three. And golly, it’s just up and down. But it’s very well done. So that’s what I’m binge watching.

Kit  1:03:52

Nice. Nice. Yeah. What is your favorite music? Do you have a genre or a favorite artists that have


to be jazz? Number one, right. But you know, I’m a good old country girl, too. You can put on some Johnny Cash. And

Kit  1:04:10

black westerns,


Country Girl, but I’d rather sit down some to some great jazz. Do

Kit  1:04:20

you know Chris Ledoux.


Do you know Chris Ledoux.

Kit  1:04:23

That was his song. This cowboys hat. It’s one of my favorites. I just love that song. Good. May he rest in peace. May he rest in peace? Okay, yeah. If you had to pick one of these things and make the other one go away, and you didn’t have a choice, you had to do